How to make a career-changing comedy podcast
The brains behind three of Britain's most exciting comedy podcasts tell us how they made a hit.
With Elon Musk rapidly sending X down the sewer, Meta’s Mark Zuckerberg ditching the idea of facts and MrBeast threatening to buy TikTok (and presumably turning it into a fight to the death with a cash prize), the closest thing that creatives have to an unfiltered, un-algorithm dependent voice to the world these days is podcasts. And no one knows how to use that voice better than stand-up comedians.
A successful podcast can turbocharge a comedy career and introduce your talents to a whole new audience. An audience that can then quickly turn into gig-going punters and sold-out shows. An unsuccessful podcast can get lost in an oversaturated market, leaving you with the cost of two rapidly depreciating mics and a pile of unsold branded tote bags. But how do you make it work? And is being sponsored by BetterHelp mandatory?
“I remember thinking there were too many podcasts even back then. Obviously I couldn’t imagine the hellscape we have now!” laughs Kiri Pritchard-McLean, one half of the hugely popular and much-loved serial killer podcast All Killa No Filla. Along with fellow comedian Rachel Fairburn, AKNF has amassed an international fanbase that buys into the chemistry between the hosts just as much as the true crime cases they discuss.
All Killa has been going for over 11 years now and will tour Australia and New Zealand this Spring. It will be the third continent of fans who have flocked to Kiri and Rachel’s glamorous live shows. But how did gain such an ardent following? “I think people started to enjoy what we do because at the time, I wouldn’t say there were many examples of two women chatting the way we do,” Rachel explains. “It wasn’t that very Woman’s Hour way of speaking. We were just having a laugh and chatting about things. It’s like Gogglebox. It’s successful because that’s what people do. They watch telly and they have a laugh around it. What’s on TV is secondary to the relationship they have.”
That seems to be key to AKNF’s success. Yes they discuss serial killers in a carefully researched and respectful way which allows agency to the victims, but around that they talk about themselves, share their opinions and go off into the kind of tangents that their fanbase love. The ‘TV is secondary’ comment is apt too, considering the beauty of podcasts is that they don’t require some public-school educated television commissioner to provide a conditional green light.
“I think the appeal of podcasts is the ability to speak more freely, without ‘the man’ telling you what to do or say,” adds Kiri. “The only reputation you need to worry about is your own. Channels who’ve got no money anyway are incredibly risk-averse – even they would say that. Podcasts are perfect examples of ‘build it and they will come’. I’ve got so much more respect for someone with the chutzpah to make stuff and show that they are productive and proactive – even if some of the stuff that people put out would go to the grave with me!”
Rachel is clearly done with gatekeepers running the rule. “I write short stories. I’m sick of gatekeepers saying ‘Well we don’t want to publish these’ or somebody coming in with their two penneth who might want to change something when I know they’re wrong. I’m just like, you know what? I’m just going to narrate them myself. I’ll put them out on a brand new podcast, and people are really enjoying it and engaging with them. I feel really enthusiastic about it, whereas I can have endless meetings with somebody who’s just going to tell me no all the time.”
“There’s all kinds of podcasts out there,” Rachel continues. “I have to admit, even the podcasts that I don’t particularly enjoy, if it’s a couple of working-class comedians doing something, I’m like, well fuck it, good for you. You’ve been told no, you’ve been criticised. You’ve had your accent pulled to pieces for no reason. Good for you for giving it a go.”
It’s a sentiment very much shared by Adam Rowe, co-host with Dan Nightingale of the eye-poppingly successful Have A Word podcast. Fast approaching 30,000 Patreons, their success since the first episode back in January 2020 is unprecedented. So much so that they recently hosted a premiere of their latest Patreon special – a charity bike ride around Rajasthan in India – to 300 of their Patreons and friends and family. It’s their most ambitious project yet with a production value that wouldn’t look out of place on Top Gear.
“I think something that people don’t talk about when it comes to the London bubble and comedy on TV is, there’s been a huge push for diversity in the last ten years and that’s a really good thing and really necessary,” Adam argues. “But what about diversity behind the camera and off screen? It’s still people who are all white, all middle-class, and all went to the same school, college and university. They end up catering for themselves and not the majority of the audience.”
Both Adam and Dan are frank about how much the success of HAW has propelled their individual careers. “I was fucking stuck before Have A Word. I did a tour show in Leeds in 2015 and sold 17 tickets! Do you know what I mean?! Like, trying so hard but hitting some fucking roadblocks,” explains Dan, who was generally perceived – pre-HAW – as being one the best acts on the circuit who wasn’t yet famous. “But I had such a strong, strong sense that podcasting was what was going to help me move forward because I can’t write scripts, I wasn’t getting any love from TV; I felt like I’d hit a glass ceiling. God bless this podcast.”
“I was always trying to tour, but the one I’d done just before HAW, I think I sold 3000 tickets across the whole tour – and half of them were in Liverpool,” Adam adds. “I mean, it’s not nothing, but the tour I’ve just done was nearly 60,000. So that’s the difference HAW has made. I had a small platform before we started the podcast, but generally speaking we were both relatively unknown. I think I was on about 15 or 20,000 followers on Instagram. It’s now like 130k so you’re talking 15% of what I’ve got now.”
The correlation between podcast and personal growth in terms of numbers – both ticket sales and social media followers – is clear. But what’s interesting is that the success of a podcast can also help a performer find their comedic voice and the confidence to flourish with it. “When we started out doing this, I think 100% it helped me to find my proper voice in comedy. I think being myself on the podcast helped me to be more confident in myself,” Rachel explains. “Whereas before that I didn’t have an agent, I didn’t have any sort of industry interest. Then suddenly people would come to see me and say “We came to watch tonight because we knew where you were on and we love your podcast”. So then you start to feel, okay, people are enjoying what I’m doing.”
Jacob Hawley has experienced similar growth as an artist through the highly enjoyable and wonderfully irreverent The Screen Rot Podcast he co-hosts with Jake Farrell. “I think doing the podcast has made me a better stand-up because I think ultimately what you’re always trying to do is whittle away and hone what your comic voice is. I think doing this with Jake has got me closer to what that is. It sounds mad that after ten years I’m still doing that, but it’s true and I think you should always be trying to improve at that.”
Screen Rot has been going for just over a year, and is very much still in its infancy compared to such established podcasts as All Killa and Have A Word, but it has quickly gained a close-knit and committed following as it pokes fun at social media content and the more bizarre characters in the social media ‘influencer’ ecosystem. A recent live show at London’s Bush Hall saw the pair host The Rottys – a wonderfully deranged awards show where they toasted some of those aforementioned characters.
“I think that the genius of the concept that Jacob came up with is it makes something communal out of something that is usually completely individual,” Jake opines. “Usually you’re just in the dark in your bedroom watching say, Eating with Tod, but now there’s other people with you who are having the same thoughts.”
The subject matter on Screen Rot is wonderfully ridiculous, although both Jacob and Jake are mindful not to punch down in any way, which can get tricky as the podcast grows in popularity. “The joke is that we’re being over analytical about something you shouldn’t analyse. I hope that comes across,” Jacob explains. “We’re aware that it’s fucking ridiculous spending so much time dissecting the Schooner Scorer – hence we’re the butt of the joke because we’re the idiots. The only thing more embarrassing than being the Schooner Scorer is being an idiot talking about the Schooner Scorer!” Jake is more to the point: “I mean, I think the CEO of Brewdog is a truly objectionable human being, but there’s not many of them that I actually think that about.”
Each of All Killa No Filla, Have A Word and Screen Rot have a listenership and fandom that is not so much a disparate collection of individuals all enjoying the same thing, but rather fully fledged and thriving communities. Communities that are well-served by their favourite podcast, but who also entertain themselves and lead to firm friendship groups. “The Patreon’s got a chat,” explains Dan. “Like three girls – who were some of what we call the OG’s because they were some of the very first Patreons – tagged me into a picture on Twitter saying they’d all gone on holiday together. They didn’t know each other before coming to HAW events.” Adam adds: “There’s meet-up groups as well. They go for meals before the live shows and it’s become a proper community.”
“[The Rotters] group chat is incredible. It’s really funny. They’re way funnier than us,” Jacob laughs. “You see people going, ‘Who fancies a beer before the live show, where we all meeting?’ There was this couple who made bingo cards for the live show where they were going to tick off things that we always say. And other people are like, send us a picture of the bingo cards so we can do it too. It’s amazing.” There was also the overexcited listener who vomited into a two pint cup within minutes of the show starting. Jake adds: We found the nearest pub and when we went inside there were about 50 people wearing Screen Rot hats, all doing karaoke together, and they didn’t really give a fuck that we were there. We went in and someone was doing a falsetto version of ‘Linger’ by the Cranberries!”
For Rotters, read Legends for AKNF: “We call them ‘Legends’ and they have a Facebook group and very early on, they asked us if we want to be on it, and we were like ‘No! That’s your space.” If you have problems or issues or thoughts, I can promise you I can take absolute objection to everything written in a 5-star review about me, so there is nothing you can write that I won’t find a problem with, so we don’t need to be in there!” Rachel, meanwhile, has no time for snitches: “Someone from the group did once contact me and try to grass someone up in it and I was like, nah! I said ‘Don’t you be bringing that group to my door. That’s your group – nothing to do with me. Don’t be a grass!”
A burgeoning community is all well and good but as with any large following, there will always be a contingent that takes their excitement a bit too far. Even well-intentioned fandom can occasionally overstep the line. The term ‘parasocial’ can have scary Baby Reindeer style connotations, but usually it’s more annoying than anything else. How do you deal with unwelcome behaviour from your own fans? Especially when it’s making you uncomfortable or invading your personal space?
“When we’ve met people after All Killa it’s always very nice. But – I don’t want to be dramatic – I find it so difficult to interact with people,” Rachel concedes. “I find it very difficult to feel comfortable with people I don’t know. It’s like all the shyness from being a kid comes back. So after my shows, if someone asks me “Are you staying around after your gig to meet people?” I say absolutely not. And that’s not me being rude, your head’s just a bit frazzled, isn’t it? Sometimes, because of my [on-stage] persona, some people are actually quite rude to me, thinking it’s funny. And I’m like, ‘I am a person! You don’t need to call me a bitch!’ I’m not being sensitive, you know? Deep down I am very shy and I can find that kind of thing quite panic-inducing. I do feel that sometimes when people corner me after a show.”
The Have A Word ‘Lids’ are some of the most protective and passionate about, but even one or two of them can overstep the mark at Adam and Dan’s individual live shows. Dan explains that one particularly enthusiastic (and well-lubricated) fan started preemptively shouting out his punchlines at a gig they were seeing twice in one day, and almost inevitably there have been instances of lines from the podcast being yelled out mid-set.
“We had a bit of that at the start and people were shouting out catchphrases from the podcast,” Dan recalls. “But we literally just said on the podcast, could you not do that? We spent a full section on it. Just let us do the standup. Come and see a live show where we do the podcast and we’ll do all the fan service you want. But that really sorted itself out pretty quickly. To the point that we’ve got our lot self-policing themselves now”
“You’re more diplomatic than me,” Adam responds. “I’m like, what you’re trying to do by shouting a catchphrase out at a show like that is you’re trying to show me you’re my biggest fan in the room. You’re trying to make me like you more than anyone else in the room. But what you’re doing is making me fucking hate you. What you’re doing is ruining the standup show for everybody else. But because we spent a full half-hour section of a show once essentially saying ‘Don’t be dicks’, it pretty much put an end to it there and then.”
Ultimately, it’s (kind of) natural that some fans don’t know when they’ve gone too far, but it sounds like a polite but unambiguous correction does the trick. For the vast majority, it’s an uncomplicated love of the content and the people creating that content. And maybe even a sense of belonging. Perhaps Kiri says it best: “We have a loneliness epidemic and we don’t have four channels where we’re all watching the same thing. We’re all looking for an authentic connection. People can have a really intimate profound relationship with podcasts, and that is something that I don’t think is replicated in television. I can’t think of a medium really that has that kind of really deep connection.”
That word, authentic. It’s what Rachel and Kiri are, what Adam and Dan are, and what Jacob and Jake are. And vitally, their rapport with each other is absolutely authentic and real. How do you make a career-changing comedy podcast? The good news is you don’t need much to get started. The bad news is, you just can’t fake it.
Perhaps it’s because their podcast success is relatively new, perhaps it’s because they properly love each other as mates and are so happy they’ve started on this new adventure together, but Jake and Jacob seem especially grateful for where the podcast could take them.
“We’ve been winding each other up for ten years. I’ve done loads of podcasts over the years and they’re all shit compared to this, because I wasn’t sat with my mate who I’ve been winding up for ten years,” Jacob explains. “Adam and Dan have obviously been friends for a long time and similarly Kiri and Rachel, and ultimately I do think that’s the backbone of any good podcast, that you can almost feel the ghosts of previous conversations haunting the shows. Do you know what I mean? The people in the TV studios must be panicking because how could they ever build something like Have A Word? How could they replicate something like Kiri and Rachel have built? They can try but it’s impossible.”
The podcasters’ podcasts
Kiri: I really like Katherine Ryan’s Telling Everybody Everything podcast. That is one I will listen to every week. Pod Save the UK with Nish Kumar and journalist Coco Khan too.
Rachel: I love Two Vegan Idiots with Carl Donnelly and Julian Dean, and What’s Upset You Now? with Paul McCaffrey and Seann Walsh.
Adam: If you’ve got a sick twisted sense of humor there isn’t a better podcast on the planet for you than Dead Men Talking with Rob Mulholland and Freddy Quinne. And Jamie Hutchinson and Tony Carroll with Hot Water’s Green Room as well.
Dan: “The one that I watch and it makes me laugh the most in terms of the clips they put out is Mike & Vittorio’s Guide to Parenting, with Vittorio Angelone and Mike Rice. I recognise in them the hustle that we had when we were starting out. Just two outstanding comics.”
Jacob: “Harriet Kemsley does one with Amy Gledhill, Single Ladies In Your Area and they’re both fucking brilliant. I find Harriet so funny and that’s a great podcast. I’d also recommend the Cultras Football Podcast with Fionn Viteža and James Allen. It’s kind of football but they’re being comedians and it’s very funny.
Jake: “The Pub Quiz Pod with Liam Shaw and Jake Bhardwaj. They also do some of the best sketches on instagram and they’ve got great chemistry. The most recent episode with Rajiv Karia was very funny.